putting myself "out there"
So my friend Pretty (a guy. and no, that's not his real name. it's what i call him when he's not around. if you've been visiting here for a while, you've heard of him before)was in a long term relationship which ended about 8 months ago. This guy is very good looking (think brad pitt), has tons of money, is funny, so smart, and not full of himself, was an all-american lacrosse captain for one of the best teams in the country. except for his height, he stands at a modest 5’7”, he’s the perfect man (and even the height wouldn’t bother a lot of people). Pretty is ALWAYS meeting women (granted, he's after sex and has literally landed nearly 35 women in 8 months. I’m considering changing his nickname to dirty). Whenever I complain about not being able to meet guys, being single, never getting any dates, etc., he’s always telling me I need to put myself “out there” more. I tell him I think I am “out there.” i usually go out 2-4 nights a week, to tons of different places (though mostly bars/clubs/restaurants), and am the MOST social person ever.*
* Let me clarify my frustration: it seems EVERY guy that approaches me at a bar or club is some gross old sleazy man. and more often than not, the hot guy is always with a girl. those guys in between, if i happen to end up talking to them (just normal perfectly sane guys), they get the number and don't call, or don't get the number at all, or i'm plain not interested. or i meet hot men half my age (see Tag update for info on THAT one). i will tell you, quite frustratedly, that i've only had 1, uno, un, ONE date in two years. i can't even get a dinner date with someone i'm not that interested in! what is going on in this city?! i always meet such nice good looking guys when i go to CA or go home. when i decide i'd like to be in a relationship, i'm considering taking a sabbatical, moving away, finding a guy, and then convincing him to come back here with me.
**Now I’ve been to more than two dozen interviews in the last year, with presently no job to speak of. I wonder how many of those guys would have offered me the chance to give them a blow job? Probably more than I’d like to think about (oh, those lonely, old, boring, partners at law firms…but I digress).
posted by jazz @ 12:26 AM
39 people who played with me:
I realize I am SO not the person to give advice here, but isn't there something to be said for a little sexual discrimination?
Apart from personal belief systems, it bothers me that all feminism got us was more men to serve. Now we are all at their beck and call constantly - not just our husbands or the men who pay for services (I accept all lifestyles).
"Put yourself out there" IMO means "let me screw you." It's your choice how you respond, but I would feel cheapened.
Like I said, I'm probably not the 1st comment you wanted...
I don't think I'm anyone to give advice, but I think you should just have a good time. I have many friends who, in college, are considered sluts because they do hookup with a lot of guys (never sexually). I believe that's unfair, and part of a double standard.
But, if it squiks you to hit on several people in a night, then I say don't do it. Just have fun. I can't imagine going out and hitting on fifteen people, much less getting rejected. But then again, I am perpetually, have been, and very well could be for the rest of my life, single. So I'm no pro.
Just have fun, I guess is my point.
I've effectively been "not single" for the past decade. I have absolutely no advice for you. Well, that's not true. I have lots of advice, but none of it's good advice.
I don't know Jazz--we're so much alike sometimes! I guess it depends on what you're looking for. If you just want to meet people and make casual connections, i think Pretty's way is a great way to go. if you're looking for something more substantial, then I think you just have to keep looking.
For me what has always worked best is just being interested in talking to people--not necessarily approaching them to hit on them, but just being open to a conversation if the opportunity presents itself without a specific endgame in mind. Best case, you meet someone cool and have a cool conversation, worst case, they blow you off, but that kind of rejection is way easier for me to take because I didn't want something particular from them in the first place. . .
:)
I couldn’t hit on that many people in one night. Actually, it’s been proven time and time again that I can’t even hit on one girl in one night. I’m just not good at it. And it’s not the fear of rejection (yes it is) it’s the fact that it just plain feels sleazy to me (also true). I always feel like I’m intruding on them and making them uncomfortable anyway. And I’m sure not pretty, so there’s no way I’d get any leeway. Plus, the only time I go out is with my friend Mike, and he’s much better looking than me, so I become the sidekick. I make everyone laugh but am immediately forgotten the moment I’m out of sight. (I’m making a big, sad, self-pity, pouting face right now, it’s really pathetic.) (it should also be noted that this isn’t really a problem for me because I don’t like going out in the first place, so I rarely, if ever, do.)
I am currently waiting here in front of the computer for my soul mate to knock on the door, if that’s any indication of the value of my advice. So as far as being “out there,” I have no idea what that’s like and I probably never will.
"I tell him I don’t think I could handle all the rejection."
And who in their right, intoxicated state of mind would reject you? That's what I'd like to know.
"Hitting" on girls is just something I can't do very well. I can approach them for a legit conversation, but the thought of "dropping lines" makes me laugh. It just isn't me at all.
Listen, even though I only briefly met you in real life, Jasmine, I can say that it can't be you that's the problem. Guys in NY must be a fucked up species.
Based on what I know of you from your blog, I would say don't consider it. Prettys way doesn't seem to be yours and there is absolutely no reason why someone like you should even need to 'put themselves out there'.
Also I agree with Glo.
jazz, maybe you're approaching it the wrong way. katie's right about the double standard. it is virtually impossible to expect guy techniques to automatically work for a girl. c'mon, as progressive as we pretend to be, that caveman is still lurking around (probably in a striped shirt). didn't 'he's just not that into you' fly off the shelves last fall?
girls have a slight power over men because of traditional sterotypes that allow them to easily reject, so guys can feel better about approaching multiple people in one night. on the other hand, a woman's approachees may be taken aback, may not take it seriously or may think she's just trying to get laid.
i'm not saying sit at the bar and bat your eyelashes, but maybe don't expect to bag a huge number of digits or the one right off at the bar.
like others said, go out and have conversations, let people approach you, get some numbers, have some dinners, see some movies and maybe you will find someone you wouldn't mind hanging out with more often.
all this coming from someone who gets hit on by the absolute wrong people and can't manage to turn off her *bitch face* in front of the right ones. jazz, we're in the same boat, so maybe i'm just trying to convince myself, too.
you may go out all the time and be disappointed, but remember it only takes one to do the job right.
I totally read that joey tribbiani-style.
I have to agree with those who told, "Have fun" and "Be yourself." With that advice you can't go wrong. It may take a bit longer to find the person you are looking for but they will see you as you.
I wish I had more opportunities, but, Jon kinda sounded familiar to me right down to the friend mike.
I personally just don't want to put the effort into it and if I ever do I am afraid I might not be able to because of my past experience.
Anyway, be yourself. If that isn't putting yourself out there, so be it. But, hell, try it once, you never know.
comment city over here! first off, i think i may have come off a bit pathetic sounding. i didn't mean it to be that way at all. I think it was also a bit misinterpreted. when it comes to meeting guys in ny, only losers approach you and it seems EVERYONE else has a model on their arm (and model, i'm not). i'm thinking there's gotta be a better way to meet people. Pretty says i've gotta go and do the work. and it's not just about hooking up, it's about meeting more people in general (it's generally not my style to run through the one night stands. they're a pretty rare occasion).
g.lo: you mentioned feminism. i forget which feminist wave i'm on, but my thought is why does it have to bet the guy who does all the work? why do i wait around to be approached like i'm too good to approach someone first?
jon: i think a little confidence would do wonders. i know TONS of women who would flat out sleep with any guy who can really make them laugh. that's the MOST important thing to me, by far.
nadia: ha!
super andy: you're too sweet. seriously. and i don't want to agree with you too quickly (and say it's not me) but i have so many seriously beautiful, smart, funny, amazing single friends. i'm going to give up on nyc guys soon. maybe i gotta go to WI and pick one up to bring back here. [wink wink]
a: i'm just not meeting any decent guys waiting around for them...
cadiz: i agree with you on nearly every point. i'm not sure it would work for girls, but the passive "let the guy do it" has done nothing for me since i've moved here.
larry: i've never considered being someone other than myself. i've considered being myself and making the first move...
okay edited teh post...tried to clarify it a bit since i'm NOT out to bag 35 guys in the next month. i think that was the misunderstanding...
Your friend Pretty is on to something.
You know what made Jordan great? Do you know WHY he was able to consistently score over 30 points per game? Cause he took 40-50 shots per night. 1-15 odds is natural... even if you look like Brad Pitt. Rejection is ALWAYS a part of the game.
Personally, like you, I HATE rejection thus I only approach a girl I'm POSITIVE is into me. You know, sustained eye contact, smiles...etc.
Here's what you do: Find a good looking guy in the said respective bar. When he walks by, trip him, and take his wallet. Hold the wallet in the air, over your head and when he begs for the wallet start asking him what his name is and where he works. Don't worry if he thinks you are crazy. Tell him this a typical dating ritual in some countries. Then look inside the wallet to see if there's any cash. If he's got 1's, he's a strip club guy. If he's got 20's then he's buying drinks for friends. And if he's got pictures of his ex-girlfriend then throw the wallet on the ground and take his cash. And if neither of these apply, then he's probably normal and your dating woes are beginning like a Nora Ephron movie. Chin up, Jazz.
Just a response to the feminism - I in NO WAY think the guy should do all the work - it's the 'everything for sex' perversion of feminism that frustrates me. Feminism should be about knowing yourself, making your own choices, and accepting the responsibilities of your actions. Feminism is NOT, IMO, what we're handed on MTV. It's so much more than "who initiates sex with whom" but that depth has been been lost since the sexual revolution.
Like I said, I'm not the person to comment on this, but I never met a comment box I didn't like.
Or you can spill your wine glass on him and then the sorry's and tissue wiping and then trying to smother the stain over the closet in the tolet. By this time, if you are unable to arrange a date with him or blah...blah.., Oh ! jaz, you better hang yourself.
Your problem is that normal, perfectly sane guys (like myself of course) don't want to go up to girls, especially hot ones traveling in packs, and hit on them. Only sleazy guys do that. The coolest girls I've met have been through friends of friends so you get to see them often and hang out with them enough to work up the courage to ask them out.
When I'm out at bars I figure most girls are tired of getting hit on by freaks and goons so I don't do it unless I'm really drunk. But then the problem is, even if said girl would decide to respond, I forget to ask for her number because I'm so drunk (or I can't type it into my phone or etch it onto my hand with my drink stir).
Since I read this very quickly (I am working at a convention in Vegas and people all around me), I dont feel like I got the full jest of the situation. Therefore I am going to hold my comments till such time that I can read again.
However, I will say this much. DEFINITELY put yourself out there more. More later.
quality over quantity, jazz.
one date in NYC in two years is a bit sparse but it seems you have a lot to offer and there are not a lot of worthy guys out there.
good luck.
unsought love is the way to go.
OK- HERE IS HOW IT IS:
in NYC guys are in a complete atrophy, meaning that they forgot what it means to persue girls. I'm surprised no one brought up the 5to1 girl to guy ratio in NY. -- Pretty is probably an exception because he actually hits on girls, maybe its cus of his hight- girls don't spot him easily...
Guys in NY are lazy, and they have been SPOILED by all the girls that are "putting themselves out-there"... its become a "batchelor" type scenario where all the girls are chasing after the guy-- so ofcourse all they have to do is stand there and be approached by girls....
what's the solution? well, jasmine i dont have any, but personally if i have to approach a guy it will turn me off. All I know, and you also mention it, once you cross the border into another state there is a HUGE change! (things are back to normal I should say)
- i was visiting a frind in DC and within 2 hours just sitting at a bar with my frind having a drink, i got 2 phone numbers from cute boys, and not to mention we walked out of there with like 10 new friends... while in NY it would never happen.
the guy to girl ratio is reversed in houston. thank God. not sure i could handle living where the girls outnumbered the boys 5-1
Just found your blog. Very nice.
i'm moving to Houston! is it true? that everything is bigger... in texas?
you are!??!? most everything is bigger in texas to be honest. i travel ALOT for work and have the opportunity to compare just about everything ;)
you go junebug! hehe
no, i'm not really moving.. :( but i hear really awesome things about texas from everyone! be it stakes or guys or climate ...etc... fastest growing city, most young people... sounds good to me-
maybe you need a new scene? like some volunteer work or a cute cafe where you can sit and study for the bar exam? married people i know have met their significant others in the slightly more unlikely places, like the college newspaper, a new-faces get together, my birthday party...
the bars are sort of played out anyway, especially if the ratio is 5-1.
i went to houston once and was baffled that no one danced in the club. what's up with that? they just stood around looking pretty, holding their drinks and bobbing their heads. even the d.j. told us that he was leaving for miami just as soon as he could because he couldn't figure it out. and this guy had skills.
Wow, someone actually wants to move TO Miami? Miami is terrible. Only visit, never live here. I cannot wait to leave this boiling crap-hole.
lucasjackson: you're a genius. i'll let you know how it goes. that is, if i'm not arrested first.
g.lo: i've never met a comment box that didn't like you! i think the feeling is mutual
j2: i have to stop looking. i know i do. i just love men. i can't help myself!
ale: road trip?
june: okay, i should move to houston too. at least long enough to hook a man...
tayster: come back soon!
cadiz: i think you've hit the nail on the head re: new places. i would love to start volunteering places but i think it's going to have to wait until after the bar. hell, everything is goign to have to wait until after the bar.
I feel it necessary to quote Jim Gaffigan here, ahem… “It seems like when you’re single all you see are couples, and when you’re part of a couple, all you see are hookers.” I think that about sums it up. I know for me, a girl doesn’t really become attractive until I’ve gotten to know her, so in the months it takes me to get to that point, most of the time she’s already taken anyway. And often times, taken by what I consider to be a pretty decent guy, so I can’t really argue that I’d be a better match. This is why retiring to a cave has become an acceptable option.
Ok I've lost track of all the conversation here but I agree with you with the sitting and waiting situation. But still putting yourself out there still doesn't appeal to me. A change in scene seems like the solution.
i say forget about the boys.
why don't you do what makes you happy, be it volunteering or making ceramic ashtrays or whatever? you can even just throw yourself into studying for the bar in exciting new places. when you're wrapped up in something, attractive interesting people will have no choice but to flock to you.
somehow i think guys can smell when women are looking around. it makes the good ones run away, and the slimy ones salivate.
i just did a joey trib reference on my blog, so my state of mind was totally not right to read your blog. um...dating...not much to say from a girl who's never gone on one. Sad, really. Pretty sounds very Joey Trib. He isn't Italian is he?
Single life sucks sometimes. All the good ones are taken...it gets worse, the older you get. That's why I date younger men...just before they are snatched away. LOl.
You are just holding out for the perfect job...you are just not aware of that.
Heeeell yeah road trip!!!
maybe DC! hehehe
SO many comments, so I don't know if it's been covered. So here's my shot at it.
Dont "put yourself out there". Just go and have a good time (and you know how to do that just fine). You'll find that you might get the desired attention of someone you actually like... or someone like Pretty... :)
To try harder, I think, is to act abnormal, and people pick up on it, and don't like it. It makes you come across awkward, and not natural.
Good luck! :)
Jazz, this post was an excellent idea. All the responses it's generated is great material for us perpetual singletons to work with. :)
And btw, you're 5"1? I'm 5"0. :) Oh, the joy of finding an almost kindred spirit.
i never know that it's also hard to find someone in nyc... i thought it's only in CA :)
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